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30 Comments

  1. Where is the ‘Sucker people in to taking products they don’t need camp’ and the ‘Talk people in to borrowing more than they can afford camp’ . . . is that just hidden in the alternative lending one?

    Reply

  2. Traciatim,
    While I differ with the gist of that statement, let’s talk about it a bit (while keeping it a friendly debate). :)
    So that it’s clear, what specifically are you suggesting?
    1. Why do you feel that people are led into products they don’t need?
    2. How often do you feel people are led into products they don’t need?
    3. Who (specifically) do you believe are leading people into these products?
    Rob, Co-Ed. CMT

    Reply

  3. Posted by John on Oct 25, 2008:
    This is for Dominion article–which was deleted, censorship on the site, not sure why, what I am saying is true.
    This will probably be censored again but here goes-this is what i said but was edited above, don’t know why though?
    Why did you not ask him what kind of compliance system they have in place. Growing 1200 agents in 2 years–yikes. You cannot grow to 1200 agents in 2 years without having little to no compliance activity……anyone with a heartbeat can work for them as an agent, Rob you seem ethical and look at this as a career-excellent, but you seem to be a bit naive as to what other people in your industry are about $$$.
    Posted by CMT on October 25, 2008:
    John,
    This is a site for friendly information sharing and honest debate. We always welcome all viewpoints as long as they are civil and substantiated. You made a disparaging comment with no evidence and we have little means of verifying it. That’s why it was edited.
    If someone has a position he/she feels strongly about that is fine, but any comments that are outright rude, clearly unfair, and/or potentially defamatory will be removed or edited immediately.
    You obviously have a strong view of the industry. It may very well be based on experiences you’ve had. I happen to disagree that your experiences are representative of today’s industry as a whole. If that’s your definition of naïve then you’ve had your say.

    Reply

  4. RBC Bank President Gordon Nixon – Salary $11.73 Million
    $100,000 – MISTAKE (FISHERMEN’S LOAN)
    I’m a commercial fisherman fighting the Royal Bank of Canada (RBC Bank) over a $100,000 loan mistake. I lost my home, fishing vessel and equipment. Help me fight this corporate bully by closing your RBC Bank account.
    There was no monthly interest payment date or amount of interest payable per month on my loan agreement. Date of first installment payment (Principal + interest) is approximately 1 year from the signing of my contract.
    Demand loan agreements signed by other fishermen around the same time disclosed monthly interest payment dates and interest amounts payable per month.The lending policy for fishermen did change at RBC from one payment (principal + interest) per year for fishing loans to principal paid yearly with interest paid monthly. This lending practice was in place when I approached RBC.
    Only problem is the loans officer was a replacement who wasn’t familiar with these type of loans. She never informed me verbally or in writing about this new criteria.
    Phone or e-mail:
    RBC President, Gordon Nixon, Toronto (416)974-6415
    RBC Vice President, Sales, Anne Lockie, Toronto (416)974-6821
    RBC President, Atlantic Provinces, Greg Grice (902)421-8112 mail to:greg.grice@rbc.com
    RBC Manager, Cape Breton/Eastern Nova Scotia, Jerry Rankin (902)567-8600
    RBC Vice President, Atlantic Provinces, Brian Conway (902)491-4302 mail to:brian.conway@rbc.com
    RBC Vice President, Halifax Region, Tammy Holland (902)421-8112 mail to:tammy.holland@rbc.com
    RBC Senior Manager, Media & Public Relations, Beja Rodeck (416)974-5506 mail to:beja.rodeck@rbc.com
    RBC Ombudsman, Wendy Knight, Toronto, Ontario 1-800-769-2542 mail to:ombudsman@rbc.com
    Ombudsman for Banking Services & Investments, JoAnne Olafson, Toronto, 1-888-451-4519 mail to:ombudsman@obsi.ca
    http://www.corporatebully.ca
    http://www.youtube.com/CORPORATEBULLY
    “Fighting the Royal Bank of Canada (RBC Bank) one customer at a time”

    Reply

  5. Hey Corporate Bully: I think you’re the corporate bully. RBC hasn’t done anything wrong and you are plastering them anyway. I’ve seen your sob story on the internet elsewhere. Do you just post anywhere to get attention?
    In your documents section on your website it even specifies that interest is paid monthly. If you chose to pay annually your cost of borrowing would be MUCH higher!
    Have you ever considered compound interest??? On January 31st, $500 of interest would have accrued according to your calculations… So who is going to pay the interest-on-interest from February to December on that $500?
    YOU ARE!! Bon Voyage!

    Reply

  6. When is the story about CAAMP’s enforcement of the broker industry going to be posted, it would be interesting to know how many broker’s have lost there license in the past 3 years? If you could please advise.

    Reply

  7. John,
    Licenses revocations are handled by provincial regulators, like FSCO, FICOM, RECA, etc.
    For example, in Ontario, you can view FSCO’s broker monitoring data here: http://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/english/licensing/mebonline/stats/mortgage/monitoring/default.asp
    If it is a topic of interest, one thing you might do is to go to this page to manually tally up the figures from each regulator’s website:
    http://www.caamp.org/info.php?pid=217
    I’ve never done that but I suspect the findings would be unsuprising. If you find differently, let me know and I’ll look into it deeper.
    As a side note, your comment was posted in today’s Home Trust story–which is unrelated to your question. Going forward, kindly email us or post comments in the appropriate forum. That way all forum comments can be kept on point.
    Thanks,
    Rob

    Reply

  8. The Great Canadian Housing Meltdown is at our doorstep, fueled by the massive stupidity that is the ‘different’ Canadian way. Sigh…

    Reply

  9. We do not need CMHC also. Let buyers, sellers and banks take all the risk…why taxpayers? There is RE socialism in North America.

    Reply

  10. I hate First National, non existent customer service, takes a week to get a reply back from them. I ask 3 different people about the IRD fee and get 3 different answers. And their online portal is not very good, looks like it was made in 2005. 7 more days and they are will be a distant memory for us.

    Reply

  11. WORST BANK EVER!!STAY AWAY!!the custumer service is horrible!!besides the problemes ive been having with them for the 2 last yrs,they decided last week that they would widraw WITHOUT MY PERMISSION 250$FOR HOUSE INSURANCE WHEN IM ALREADY FULLY INUSRED!! now im breaking my head to get this money back!”

    Reply

  12. NBC FIXED RATE promotion 2.25% for 3 year closed
    Does anyone have any update on NBC current promotion for 3 year fixed, It seems like they are offering 2.25%.

    Reply

  14. Beware RBC! Offered a 1.78 discount at time of selling us the mortgage from an inflated 5 year posted rate on their website. I thought ‘okay’ since the discounted rate matched competitors 5 years rates in the marketplace at that same time. In the 2nd and 3rd year of my term I ask about penalty to break and move into a new mortgage. Penalty $18,000 IRD! Why. …………..RBC MATH They took this artificial discount they gave me and applied it to their IRD calculation!!!!!!. Bait and Switch….discount because we want your business in the beginning which really just matched the marketplace. Oh that discount sir…you need to give that back to us. Sales practices are borderline criminal. When I complained the legal representative did not address the question on sales ethics, disclosure at time of sale and shady sales practice the entire bank is following. 10% prepayment is lowest in the industry as well. Largest bank is the worst. Stay the hell away from RBC please for you own finances sake. Imagine IRD + 1.78% x your mortgage amount x the number of months you have left. That money goes in RBCs profit jar only because their posted rates are higher and they discounted them at time of sale

    Reply

  15. Um, Bait and Switch is when they advertise something and sell you something else. You wanted 5 year money, they sold you 5 year money. If optionality was important to you, you should have examined the terms of your ‘closed’ mortgage or maybe bought an ;open’ one.

    Reply

  16. RBC is bad when it comes to promises before you go with them and facts after you have signed the contract.
    stay away or RBC or read well the contract and don’t complain later!
    Screwing up the client is written in the terms :)

    Reply

  17. I hate this argument.
    RBC (or any bank) is not “bad with promises”.
    The “promise” is the contract that YOU signed with them, saying that you would pay interest for 5-years at a set rate. When YOU break that promise by cutting your mortgage short, you need to pay a penalty to compensate the lender for the amount of interest they lose. This is all spelled out in your mortgage contract (i.e., the promise given to you by the bank).

    Reply

  18. Hate is bad Bob, try with Love :)
    The conditions that banks (RBC for example) put in the terms of fixed term mortgages are more than assuring fairness if you break the term, they are receiving way more than compensating for eventual loss.
    As I said – screwing up the client is in the term, so better read well and don’t complain. :)

    Reply

  19. John,
    I don’t complain. People who don’t read the contract complain.
    In addition, you are simply wrong that banks “are receiving way more than compensating for eventual loss”.
    Two posts ago, Rob discussed this very topic . . .
    Here is his quote:
    “Most of the time, mortgage compensation charges are not the cash cow people think they are. (There are exceptions, of course.) Last quarter, for example, CIBC reported that its prepayment fees collected from customers were actually lower than the true breakage costs to the bank. That appeared to be an industry-wide trend, according to CIBC’s earnings release.”

    Reply

  22. I am just a consumer and I don’t have a lot of knowledge regarding mortgage lending like other readers of this website. Usually I just read the article and the comments to learn all the new things. Ok this time I want to say something…I understand my comment may not be liked but I honestly want to get my question out here…ok I have a few properties and I am the one in my family to handle all the details of financing and purchasing each time. Among the transactions I dealt with mortgage brokers twice. First time was the first house I bought. The broker was a friend’s friend. I knew nothing at that time and relied on the broker 100%. It was not until I bought my second house a few years later I realized the rate the broker gave me for my first house was high at the time of the transaction. Then I started to negotiated with banks directly. The rates I got were very low for the time of the transactions. Then one time, a broker’s ad attracted me since she promised lower than the best rate banks gave me. I dropped the banks’ offers and worked with her (she works for quite a big brokerage). I completely regretted. It was a terrible experience. She gave me the financing approval on the last day (in the mid-afternoon by the way) of my financing term with a higher rate! I lost the ability to do anything but accepting her deal because I had only a couple of hours left. Ok I want to point out the first broker sent my mortgage to FirstLine and I later learned he sent most his clients to FirstLine. The second broker sent my mortgage to Scotia bank. After reading many articles here I learned these two lenders were the big supporters for broker channel and probably pay more to brokers too. I understand not all the brokers are like the two I dealt with but my questions is as a consumer how do I know “my” mortgage broker is actually shopping for me instead of for himself?

    Reply

  23. I am curious how many mortgage brokers were schooled in finance or related areas before getting into the mortgage business? From what I see, a good many independent brokers have unrelated backgrounds and are past Banker Tellers, Engineers, Teachers, etc.
    A undergraduate degree today is the old high school diploma and a “AMP” designation is not anywhere near on par with a CA, CGA, CMA, CFA, RFP, CIM or CFP.
    IMO, independent mortgage brokers will always have a credibility issue until their industry raises the bar of entry. Something that Financial Institutions have been quietly doing for some time.

    Reply

  24. Since when have Financial Institutions been raising the bar? The people supplying mortgages through them do not even have to be licensed. Plus they are always emailing independent mortgage brokers and trying to recruit them. (I get emails weekly from Big Banks trying to recruit me and my background is working at nightclubs so I would strongly disagree with you)

    Reply

  25. I’ll second what niki said. How many CA, CGA, CMA, CFA, RFP, CIM or CFP would even work for a bank? The pay is terrible compared to what you can make outside the banks.

    Reply

  26. Hi everyone,
    It appears our site host TypePad has had an overzealous spam filter. Certain comments have inadvertently been caught in spam in the following posts:
    DLC Buys MCC…
    Kanetix Snaps Up RateSupermarket.ca…
    RBC’s 5-year Rate Sinks…
    Monoline Lenders Unplugged
    Mortgage Rules Fuel Rent Hikes
    Buyer Protection Plan Revisited
    All such comments have now been posted. We are actively investigating the cause and will now be checking spam twice daily for any reader posts that are inadvertently caught in the junk filter.
    Your comments are greatly appreciated so please accept our sincere apologies for any comment delays.
    Rob McLister
    Editor, CMT

    Reply

  27. Is it really busy for mortgage brokers right now? I had a broker take my application in May, lose it a few times, finally run my application, ratios, do a credit check … come back to me with a rate, lender and holding period … then, after I’d been SHOPPING for a house for… most of June ….my realtor mentioned if I had the paper form of the committment for my finance. I called the broker who told me they had “backburnered” (or some such bs) my application as it was a pre-approval and they were “too busy” to have done something, I’m not sure what. And now could only offer me a rate some 50bps+ more than I was told I was pre-approved for. Do brokers care so little for their clients? What if I’d made an offer unconditional? I’ll be making an appointment with my banker tomorrow, if this is what brokers do for you.

    Reply

  28. Hi all,
    Wondering if anybody else found themselves in the same boat: I had a prime -0.85% variable with ICICI bank with 3.5 years left. Previously, they had told me that the mortgage is fully portable to any new property (with the usual penalties of course). So this month we decided to downsize and sold our house and bought a condo (due to changes in job situation for myself and my wife). When I asked ICICI to port the mortgage to the new property, they refused, stating that due to the new mortgage rules they haven’t given out any funds for highrise condo purchases since mid-2012. This is for a $350,000 condo at Yonge & 401 with a 72% LTV on a conventional 25 year amt. Does this make sense or are they just wanting to dump my good variable and trying to force me into a newer (higher interest) product?

    Reply

  29. Is there any way to buy a residential detached home using a Corporation with a minimal down payment?
    The house would subsequently be rented out.
    If housing suddenly went south, it would be the corp holding the bag.

    Reply

  30. Not really….
    Minimum down payment would be 20% and require a personal guarantee. Which would omit the separation via corporate vale.
    Unless you borrowed from a mic or private lender and then your rate would be disadvantageous!

    Reply

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