Wells Fargo Pulls Out Of Canada

Wells-Fargo-Canada In a surprise announcement just minutes ago, Wells Fargo is discontinuing lending in Canada.

The move affects both Wells Fargo’s retail and broker channels.

President, Rick Valade, said Wells Fargo will honour valid fully-executed mortgage commitments, provided the applicant or applicants fulfill all of the terms and conditions of the mortgage commitment (including any time specified for closing or expiration of the mortgage commitment).

Valade said, “We thank all of our broker partners, vendors and customers for their business and support over the years.”

If you go to Well’s broker website, this is what you see:  link  (Their product information and login screen are now gone, just like that….)

Wells Fargo is one of Canada’s biggest alternative lenders.  We ran this story on them earlier this year.

More to follow…

  1. They just weren’t getting the volume. After the US mothership fell into disarray their underwriting really tightened up and it seemed like only a matter of time.
    Such a shame for the employees.

  2. I have a Wells Fargo mortgage with the five year maturity date as of May 2011. Am I to assume that they will NOT be offering renewals at that time?
    Thanks for the insight.
    wade

  3. Thanks for the information. Is there any possibility that this mortgage will be assumed or assigned to a lender who will offer renewals?
    I also have 2 GMAC / Computershare Trust Co. mortgages (income properties) that are up for renewal at just about the same time, and I am concerned although my credit will have improved I will have difficulty finding lenders? I live in rural N.S. and there is not always an abundance of lenders.
    Anymore advice / direction would be appreciated.
    Thanks in advance
    wade

  4. Some background:
    WFF does not have a 60+ year history in Canada.
    Wells Fargo Financial acquired Trans Canada Credit (along with its branches) in November 1992. They maintained the TCF name until 2005 then changed it to Wells Fargo Financial Canada. In 2005 WFF Canada had 168 branches. In 2009 that was down to 130 branches.
    http://tinyurl.com/wffcanada2005
    Also WFF Canada may have $5.5 bil in assets but not all of that is mortgages.
    According to Bloomberg, WFF Canada will continue to offer personal loans.
    http://tinyurl.com/bloombergwffc

  5. DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING TO HELP PEOPLE WITH MORTGAGES ARE THEY REFFERING THEM ELSE WHERE?I HAVE ONE THAT IS GOING TO BE RENEWED AFTER DEALING WITH CANCER MY CREDIT WENT POOR BUT I NEVER MISSED A MORTGAGE PAYMENT.. SO IT WILL BE HARD FOR ME TO GET A MORTGAGE I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO… I CALLED WELLS FARGO BUT THEY DONT HAVE ANSWERS FOR ME..

  6. Hi Candy,
    Wells Fargo probably won’t be able to help. Once you’re within 120 days of your renewal date you should chat with a mortgage planner who specializes in subprime mortgages.
    Rob

  7. It is a good thing these vultures can no longer do home loans….I worked there for 2 years and the activity that goes on there with their lenders is criminal. Good riddens to BAD RUBISH I say

  8. this news is a bit of a blessing, because WFF is terrible to deal with and they harrass you to no end! I am finding out things after the fact! With layoffs and job losses the way they are you think they would be a little more understanding – will NEVER deal with them for anything when my mortgage is up in 2011!

  9. How can you find out things after the fact, you mean your lawyer did not tell you what was in you were signing or you did not read your contract, is that what you mean?

  10. I always get a good laugh when people say they will never deal with a company again due to collection issues. Guess what, if you paid on time you would not hear from them.
    Yes many people have been laid off but that is not the banks fault. Most institutions are more than happy to make arrangements but you must follow up on those arrangements. You must remember there was a contract made here. The bank promised to give you the money and you must pay the required payment each month. If you received the money then the bank lived up to their part of the agreement.
    Consider this. Assume you started a new job and you worked everyday for 2 weeks and at the end of the 2 weeks the boss came and said he had a tough week and cannot pay you. I would guess you would freak out right?
    Nancy if you are behind with Wells then make arrngments that you can do and that are acceptable to Wells. Do not tell them what they want to hear and make sure you act on the arrangments that you said you will. Trust me collectors look to get people angry and frustrated. Remain calm when you talk with them and always be pleasant and never tell them you will pay an amount that you know you cannot. When that happens they stop accepting arrangements.

  11. When you deal with Wells for a mortgage you do not use your own lawyer. Wells provides one of their own, you sign your documents in the shady “back booths” at their branch. So, Dave.L, do not assume you know what Nancy means.
    [Edited]

  12. Brenda, if you obtained your Wells Fargo mortgage through a broker, then the client would have used their own lawyer. I take offence to you calling people scum, when it is obvious you do not have the total information or know the process. Everyone can walk away before signing any deal, or have it reveiwed through independant legal advice at any time before signing.
    Rob, I thought you didn’t allow attacks such as Brenda’s here. Would you allow it if she had said all mortgage brokers are scum?

  13. Mark2 is 100% correct about the lawyer. Usually when people have that much hate on for a company it is either one of two things. First you owe them money and are in arrears or you used to work for them and things did not fair too well with your employment. I agree there some “bad” companies out there but Wells Fargo is not one of them. Brenda would I be correct?
    Wells gets looked upon harshly due to higher rates but everything they do is well above board (more above board than most companies) They like all companies and all they do is provide a service.

  14. I have a wff mortgage. It is due for signing at the end of November. I was told they will no longer be carrying mortgages and that I should sell my house. I’ve lived there 17 years and do not want to sell. Anyway, I’ve moved out and am unsure what will happen to my home. I’m glad they are going out of business, they are terrible people who DO NOT LISTEN to what you try to tell them. I don’t think they would have told me until the last minute about not carrying my mortgage if it wouldn’t have been me calling to ask when it was next due for signing. I knew it was coming close so asked them when it was do. You can imagine my surprise when I was told they wouldn’t be carrying mortgages anymore. 17 years of all that interest down the drain. Hopefully other people will have a heads up before they are put out in the cold this winter. Nice, nice people they all are. Bet they sleep well at night.

  15. I happily dealt with Wells Fargo for 4 years. Never late, never missed a payment. Recieved a letter saying they were unable to do mortgages in Canada any longer. We started recieving offers int he mail from Mortgage lenders, decided to do it now and be done with it, went to bank…Now, closing date was Nov 9, payout was recieved by Wells on Nov 10, in the process, somehow we over paid a little over $2200. They say they will mail the check out on the 5th of December, we should recieve it around the 10th of Dec. a month later. Also, on the Nov 13, they took an additional mortgage payment of $1125. First comment when called was “are you sure”. After they checked into it, late that day called and said they would mail us back $900 and were keeping $200 for interest. ??? Now, do I get interest for them keeping it for a month, nooo, and can I call them everyday to say where is my $3300, nooo. Yes the lawyer is on it now, but a week ago I would have recommended them to anyone. As of now….will never deal with them again and will never recommend. We were good customers.

  16. It’s entertaining reading these message boards. I have worked for Wells Fargo for over 9 years doing loans and mortgages. This is a good company to work for and borrow from. Our rates are high because the people we deal with have had poor credit in the past. And yes, if you don’t pay your mortgage, a collector will call you to get you to pay, that’s the same with every institution. Would you rather we not call and just foreclose?
    For the person who overpaid their mortgage… it’s probably because your new financial institution didn’t forward the funds right away, and you didn’t stop your pre-authorized payment. All the funds have to clear before it can be refunded to you. (and yes, checks from the bank can go NSF, I’ve seen it happen)
    In regards to not doing mortgages: If a client cannot get financing elsewhere for their mortgage coming up for renewal, Wells Fargo will renew it for another year. I’ve seen this done many times already.
    Anyone with a WFF mortgage should have had plenty of time to clean up their credit and get prime financing with a bank by the time the mortgage is up for renewal.

  17. Joe,
    Am I to assume that there is a possibility that Wells Fargo will grant me another year if I am unable to secure alternative financing in April of 2011 (the 5 year maturity date of my existing mortgage)
    I will try my best to find a home elsewhere…
    What concerns me in my particular case is that I also have 2 GMAC / Computershare Mortgages and they are also not offering renewals at this time…
    As somebody who owns a few rental properties, the new rental offset rules (50% down from 80%) will really hamper my ability to qualify in terms of ratios… so I am anticipating some difficulty in spite of the fact I have never been late on a single payment and in fact have accelerated most payment schedules…
    The last discussion I did have with GMAC, they indicated that Resmor Trust was stepping in and offering renewals in certain circumstances…
    Any direction / advice would be appreciated…
    I am somebody who has drastically improved my credit and never came close to defaulting but it seems as though I could be negatively affected by the recent events in the mortgage world…
    I am not looking for pity or blaming anybody at all… I made the choice to purchase these properties and I intend on paying them off, however I would prefer not to have to resort to getting taken to the cleaner by a private lender…
    Thanks for the consideration…
    wade

  18. Wade
    Make sure
    1) your credit score is above 680 by the time you are 120 days from renewal
    2) you have at least 2 credit accounts with limits over $2000 and 1-2 years of perfect repayment history on both
    3) you are never late on a payment until your mortgages are all renewed
    4) your personal income and rental income on line 126 of your tax return are enough to qualify you for new mortgages.
    Talk to a broker who can do the debt ratio calcs for you using the new rules that were announced.

  19. SubPBroker,
    Thanks so much for the information!
    1) It should not be a problem to have my credit score at 680 by that time… It was right around there and then it recently dropped a little bit due to an increased balance which will be brought to zero again by the end of the month…
    2) I have this already and should have no problem continuing it
    3)I have never been late, nor will I allow that to happen
    4)This could get tricky… I have my properties set up as “In Trust Agreements” on behalf of a company that I own…
    I did go to an Accountant and a Lawyer who specialize in real estate matters and it is all fine as far as CRA is concerned (I passed an audit a couple years back with no troubles at all)…
    I do draw a salary from my own company, but that is all that shows on my line 126 of my tax return…
    I trust you can understand the complication at this point…
    To further compound the issue is that fact that there are 8 other properties that my company claims which are not currently deeded to my… Other individuals (my parents and ex-gf) borrowed the money to purchase the properties and then I manage them / collect all monies, pay all debts etc… They hold them “In Trust” on behalf of my company…
    However, as you can see this clearly complicates the loan application…
    The “In Trust” is for the long term benefit of CRA (I guess??) I followed the advise of my lawyer, accountant and mortgage broker at the time when i was deciding how to proceed with my goal of owning rental properties… and this was how I was told to go about doing it…
    I am assuming the primary benefit of this all being that at the end of the day, with the properties clear of mortgages I would be able to transfer title over to my company and then only be taxed at the much lower corporate tax rate (as has taken place all along) as opposed to claiming the rental income personally…
    In any case, it is what it is right now and I cannot change the situation…
    My company has “In Trust” agreements on 14 buildings all together… only six of these are in my personal name…
    I am not overly optimistic with the chance of qualifying based on the new rental offset rules…
    Unless… my companies income (which is based on rental income and also Marine Construction) is treated differently; i.e. not subject to the same rental offset???
    Any ideas? haha
    -wade

  20. it’s cheque NOT check. Cheque refers to money and check refers to looking at something. Where did you go to school?

  21. I currently work with WFFCC and we are still offering renewals if needed on a case by case basis. if you are having troubles gettting qulaified somewhere else, try asking for the “mortgage retention unit” with WFCC and they will allow it. As well, after your term is up, we will keep these mtg accts on our books as long as the client needs. We just cannot make changes to the due date, interest, insurance, payments, etc. In other words, they can stay on the books for the full amort period regardless of your term. Hope this helps.

  22. Good of them to tell their employees….they had to find out on the internet!!!! Good business Wells Fargo.

  23. I agree…my son works there well up until today and some of the stuff he tells me is criminal. I work in a lawyers office and I do real estate and I can’t believe what people are paying in interest and fees just to be able to stay afloat. Companies like Wells Fargo really take advantage of the poor.

  24. Lorie:
    Wells Fargo prices loans based on risk. They offer market rates based on the situation the borrower has put themselves in. In many cases lenders like Wells Fargo are the only option to get homeonwers out of a bad situation.
    What interest rate would you charge to someone with poor credit and 5-10 times the risk of a normal borrower?

  25. Hello Everyone
    It was shocking to see the news of Wells Fargo. People who still have their mortgages with Wells Fargo, I know what they have been going through. People paid 4% on top of their borrowed amounts just to get their mortgages.
    I am a professional mortgage broker. I can help anyone to get a decent mortgage from a regular lender and get you out of Wells Fargo. Even if your credit is bad or you have other difficulties, I can help. Thanks.
    [Edited. Thank you for the post. I’m sorry but we ask that brokers do not post contact info in the forums. Otherwise the site would be overrun with promotional messages. Licensed brokers are welcome to link to their names, however. Thank you for your understanding. – Elizabeth, CMT]

  26. This happens to be the worst company that I have ever worked for. apparently its gone for good and i hope it never comes back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  27. I take issue with the fact that you said ” due to collection issues. Guess what, if you paid on time you would not hear from them”. That’s a load of bull! They called me weekly to say that I was up to date and doing great on my loan, and they consistently wanted me to get a home loan, when I was in months of paying off through a normal bank. Then they thought I might like a short term loan. When I asked what the interest rate was, the reply was “42%” Why yes, I’d love to pay half my balance in interest every month…wouldn’t everyone? I told them unless I missed a payment not to call, but they called every week-2 weeks.
    On a separate note, does anyone know the address to send my final payment to?

  28. what about people that have amazing credit now? I have had a mortgage with Wells for 3 yrs, never missed a payment ever, have amazing credit and now my renewal rate went from 7% to 14%. How is this fair?? They have told me that I can short sale my property and just owe them the rest at 0% but I can’t get that in writing from them. Make me really nervous to sell my property and more nervous to accept the rate of 14% that will double my mtg payments. I have been a good client and they have made tons off my by interest only. This whole thing is not fair and leaves people who have work extremely hard to build up their credit in a really bad position through NO fault of their own……

  29. …glad to hear that they shut down, I used to work there. Nobody knows anything about anything….I am sooo much happy to hear this news today… it has caused me a major deppression…now I can celebrate with a glass of champagne !!!!!!!
    [This post has been significantly edited. Note to Poster: Lisa, Being critical of a company and backing it up with level-headed supportable facts is fine. For the sake of civility, however, we ask that people refrain from denigrating companies with unsubstantiated claims, insults and profanities. Thank you. – CMT]

  30. It was really nice for my spouse and I to find out they were no longer doing mortgages a month after the fact…when my renewal was up. Due to the fact that the recession happened and I was the only one working, no one would take us on, despite the good year we had previously.
    As far as we’re concerned, Wells Fargo has/had horrible business practices. We were eventually foreclosed upon. Not to mention, we moved out of the house before we were kicked out and they still managed to stab us in the back. We thought we had 30 days notice before they could confiscate our things…nope. We got most of it out, but there were still several things we couldn’t get to because they changed the locks on us…should have tried to find other options in the first place when looking for a mortgage.
    So glad they’re gone.

  31. Bad things happen to everyone but that doesn’t absolve you from your personal responsibility. When you get a mortgage the lender entrusts you to pay it back on time. There are no exceptions in your contract for unemployment or hardship and you knew that going in.
    You’re in an unfortunate position that is at least partly of your own doing. Nonetheless the lender is fully within its rights to protect its security when you default. Wells Fargo was one of the only lenders that would take a risk on you. Otherwise you wouldn’t have chose them. Don’t blame them for giving you a chance.

  32. Hi ! I wonder if it is giving you a chance or having a chance to take us to the cleaners ! I have a bill there and at 34 % i think it is to much ! highway robbery ! i am not paying my bill if i can help it ! thinking about going to court because they charge to much !!

  33. Does anyone know what really happens if you cannot get refinanced when your mortgage comes up for renewal? Can they just take your home in Canada if you are up to date in payments and still willing to make the payments?

  34. Hi Snowflake,
    If your existing lender will not renew you, you generally need to find another lender or you could potentially lose the property.
    You should speak with a mortgage planner well ahead of your renewal date to plan for contingencies.
    Good luck…

  35. Hi snowflake700,
    I don’t know who your lender is, but mine was GMAC and they pulled out of Canada, so I was left with no renewal, and my credit rating is not good (i.e., it’s quite poor at the moment, but I have never missed a mortgage payment).
    I had luck with my local credit union. They are often willing to take a higher risk because they are in your own community. They “know where you live”. ;)
    As Rob says, plan ahead as much as you can. Best wishes!

  36. So very nice of some people to comment that you should live up to your responsibilities,which I believe you should.However judging from some of the abrupt comments, “you signed the loan you have to pay,regardless” are probably from people who either have never been in a bad situation or who really don’t know what they are talking about. We made alternate arrangements with Wells for our loan.We did not refuse to pay, but had to modify things due to recent employment issues. We thought everything was settled, arrangements made only to be called several days later, on the weekend when you can’t call them back and told we have changed our minds. It doesn’t make a difference who you talked to earlier and what was agreed, we changed our minds.
    Sounds like a real trustworthy company. I am assuming that the reason they pulled out of Canada is perhaps they were having some financial problems of their own.I wonder what kind of arrangements they made with those they had commitmentsto,and if they would appreciate those people telling them what was told to us.

  37. I have a car loan with WFF. 11.5%. Still have 7,000 left to pay, and the car is ready for the scrap yard. had no clue WF Canada was out of business. I never watch the news. Any suggestions

  38. hi tracey me to i cant get hold of them eather i want to pay them out so i can get on with my life and breath again but when i call them all i get is a recording the office is closed it is open from 8-5 week days but i cant ever get hold of a real person.bet thay will get hold of me if i quite paying tho maby i will go down that road see what happens at 39% dont much matter anymore im just tired off it

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